Pro 2 Manual

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Pro 2 Manual

Postby Bald Eagle » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:48 am

Any chance of getting a preview of the Pro 2 Manual? Would love to start reading about some of the details.
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby cbmd » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:34 am

You're gonna have to wait for the release...don't worry, shouldn't be too long a wait :)
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby dslsynth » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:17 pm

Awesome, Carson! Do you need reviewers for the sysex format description? ;-)
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby cbmd » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:34 pm

nope!
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby cbmd » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:51 am

My apologies for being so curt. I've spent the past few nights extensively documenting and testing the NRPN implementation. Super busy here! Thanks for asking.
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby Bald Eagle » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:21 am

I can only speak for myself but no apology is needed. Take a break, watch the fireworks and have some fun, Your hard work is appreciated. Keep up the great work Carson.
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby dslsynth » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:39 am

cbmd wrote:My apologies for being so curt. I've spent the past few nights extensively documenting and testing the NRPN implementation. Super busy here! Thanks for asking.

That's completely all right, Curt! ;-)

All I can say is that I really look forward to see the resulting manual. DSI manuals are (with a few exceptions) of high quality and very readable. Hope the program vector indexes will be documented as well.
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby snowcrash » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:23 pm

Does anybody know if in paraphonic mode the OSCs will retain the capabilities to sync and modulate each other? Say, you set OSC1 to FM OSC2 and play them like a four voiced ARP Odyssey or Sub 37?

And to continue that thought: a duophonic mode would be great to emulate classic patches... but that's just for the purists and those who got excited about the announcement of that "Korgyssey" earlier that year. ;)
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby dslsynth » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:36 pm

@snowcrash: A qualified guess is that in paraphonic mode each oscillator is operated independently with its own gate and VCA envelope state. So any kind of oscillator s*x may not quite work as expected.
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby Razmo » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:19 pm

dslsynth wrote:@snowcrash: A qualified guess is that in paraphonic mode each oscillator is operated independently with its own gate and VCA envelope state. So any kind of oscillator s*x may not quite work as expected.


Actualy the specs on DSI's webpage states that... it has independant envelopes for each oscillator... I'm just wondering if these "per oscillator EGs" are then digitaly created... I have a feeling that's what they actualy are to simplify the analog signal path, but who knows... if not, then there have to be four VCA's after convertion to analog, plus a mixer to mix the four oscillators together.

I just hope that each oscillator is also triggerable independently via MIDI as well... i REALLY REALLY REALLY hope that...
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby snowcrash » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:04 pm

To me it's pretty clear, that in paraphonic mode there are digital VCAs for each OSC while the analog VCA behind the filter will still be active. Since the analog VCA and its env can retain their monophonic behaviour (gated while any amount of keys is pressed) that would be the most logical and meaningful implementation.

pmm got back to me on my questions on another board, while he didn't have his Pro2 here to test this, he also mentioned that inconcoming OSC updates during this test phase had a lot of feature changes (even in filter sound due to changes in some parameter's cv spread) so he couldn't say for sure anyway.

Well that means I'm just going to wait and test it for myself as soon as the beast is actually available in stores...
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby Martin » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:54 pm

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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby Paul Dither » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:03 pm

Thanks a lot, Martin!

Where did you get it from?
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby Paul Dither » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:11 pm

I can't help myself to really like the name "Super Meh". :mrgreen:
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby Martin » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:15 pm

Poptones wrote:Thanks a lot, Martin!

Where did you get it from?


Hi, from gearslutz forum http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... -a-54.html

happy reading :)
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby Paul Dither » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:44 pm

Just from skimming through the manual, I have to say that it's very well done. Kudos to the DSI team!
I also like the idea of further online tutorials.

Feature-wise and with regard to the ease of use of the sequencer as described in the manual (especially the real time recording function), this document makes me wanna try one out right now. Definitely looks like a keeper.
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby Razmo » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:58 pm

Martin wrote:
Poptones wrote:Thanks a lot, Martin!

Where did you get it from?


Hi, from gearslutz forum http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... -a-54.html

happy reading :)


THANKS!!!!!!!

and... ahhh! what nice reading... the usual DSI SysEx specs, all with the nice requests and such... :D ... this i eyecandy for me.

but... we have the same irritating problem as with the P12 manual here... only giving the NRPN numbers for the parameters. This probably means that I'll have to analyze every single god damned byte in the sysex structure again because the offsets do not match up with the NRPN numbers :roll:

This has obviously become a trend at DSI to omit this info ...

What I like the most about DSI sysex structures is that they do not have some obscure checksum format, and there are no parameter bytes that has more than one function depending on other parameters values (like most effects parameters usualy are done in most digital synths with FX).

I'm definitely going to get myself a Pro 2 at some point... if it'll be the keyboard version I don't know because I really find the 3½ oktave to be a bit too little as my only master keyboard... 5 octaves seem to be more how I like it, especialy because I'm used to my Yamaha EX5 keybed with 76 keys.

but... it's nice to finaly be able to read about this beast instead of making guesswork all the time.
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby dslsynth » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:32 pm

Poptones wrote:Just from skimming through the manual, I have to say that it's very well done. Kudos to the DSI team!

There is probably a reason for this manual looking more manual like:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-wilcox/11/948/2aa
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby dslsynth » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:16 pm

Razmo wrote:but... we have the same irritating problem as with the P12 manual here... only giving the NRPN numbers for the parameters.

Not to worry! That is why I wrote a C++ program to analyse the edit buffer dumps automatically for program parameter positions. Its available in the other forum and I will update it soon.

The manual is now available on the Pro2 product page:
http://davesmithinstruments.com/downloa ... _v.1.0.pdf

And as usual there are plenty of bugs in there as well:
  1. Look at the Pro2 announcement video around one minute and observe how the Shape Mod knob is turned towards Wave Right while a super wave becomes more and more obvious. Then compare Oscillator 1 Shape with Wave Right in the sysex description. And as expected Wave Right does not include the super waves but the announcement video actually demonstrates this.
  2. The Oscillator Shape values are not correct as table says 0-19 but the description says 0-32.
  3. With that knowledge I would check and recheck for unfixed Prophet 12 manual bugs in the Pro2 manual and check the values against the instrument before trusting the current table too much. In other words it requires access to the instrument to make precise sysex documentation for Pro2 just like it did for Prophet 12.
  4. Look at the Slew/Tie indexing on printed page 121 NRPN 787. The numbering is quite messed up as they write 1, 2, 3, 1, 4, 5, 6, ..., 15 with the effect that its not quite obvious if the last step in a track have a Slew/Tie value or not. Well except that the second sequencer section for tracks 17-32 shows Slew/Tie numbers 1..16 to its just a typo in the first section.
And it have to said that keeping such a massive table correct without making errors is very hard when working in a pressure cooker.

I like the general layout of the program vector and can see they let tracks 17-32 be the extension area when in 8x32 mode. So track 17 is steps 17-32 for track 1 in 32x8 mode. That makes the 16x16 mode a little easier but requires the code in a more varied selection of places in 32x8 mode. No issue at all but I was curious of how they did it this time around.

Interesting this is the first DSI program vector format where more than parameter is stored in a single byte: for the Slew/Tie values bits 0-6 are the Slew value and bit 7 is the Tie on/off flag. Well technically Prophet 12 did something similar somewhere in the format.

Anyway, its a nice well written manual with a neat little technical todo list.
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Re: Pro 2 Manual

Postby Razmo » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:32 pm

dslsynth wrote:
Razmo wrote:but... we have the same irritating problem as with the P12 manual here... only giving the NRPN numbers for the parameters.

Not to worry! That is why I wrote a C++ program to analyse the edit buffer dumps automatically for program parameter positions. Its available in the other forum and I will update it soon.

The manual is now available on the Pro2 product page:
http://davesmithinstruments.com/downloa ... _v.1.0.pdf

And as usual there are plenty of bugs in there as well:
  1. Look at the Pro2 announcement video around one minute and observe how the Shape Mod knob is turned towards Wave Right while a super wave becomes more and more obvious. Then compare Oscillator 1 Shape with Wave Right in the sysex description. And as expected Wave Right does not include the super waves but the announcement video actually demonstrates this.
  2. The Oscillator Shape values are not correct as table says 0-19 but the description says 0-32.
  3. With that knowledge I would check and recheck for unfixed Prophet 12 manual bugs in the Pro2 manual and check the values against the instrument before trusting the current table too much. In other words it requires access to the instrument to make precise sysex documentation for Pro2 just like it did for Prophet 12.
  4. Look at the Slew/Tie indexing on printed page 121 NRPN 787. The numbering is quite messed up as they write 1, 2, 3, 1, 4, 5, 6, ..., 15 with the effect that its not quite obvious if the last step in a track have a Slew/Tie value or not. Well except that the second sequencer section for tracks 17-32 shows Slew/Tie numbers 1..16 to its just a typo in the first section.
And it have to said that keeping such a massive table correct without making errors is very hard when working in a pressure cooker.

I like the general layout of the program vector and can see they let tracks 17-32 be the extension area when in 8x32 mode. So track 17 is steps 17-32 for track 1 in 32x8 mode. That makes the 16x16 mode a little easier but requires the code in a more varied selection of places in 32x8 mode. No issue at all but I was curious of how they did it this time around.

Interesting this is the first DSI program vector format where more than parameter is stored in a single byte: for the Slew/Tie values bits 0-6 are the Slew value and bit 7 is the Tie on/off flag. Well technically Prophet 12 did something similar somewhere in the format.

Anyway, its a nice well written manual with a neat little technical todo list.


Yeah... I noticed the missing wavetable superwaves as well, but it's a bit hard to figure out the error unless you have the mchine to test at the same time, so I just read on... anyway I was mostly interrested in seeing the SysEx messages :lol:

I also notices the way of handling the sequcner data in 16/32 step modes, but like it... I like when each parameter has it's own place in the structure, and that's mainly because SoundDiver cannot change knob layouts based on a parameters value... this makes it a pain in the neck to do FX parameters on most digital synths because a byte has different meaning depending on another parameter (like FX algorithm for example).

With the format giving you essentialy two times the first 16 steps, it will generaly mean that you should be able to switch between two completely different sequences without erasing anything... that's neat really... unless I misunderstood the layout.

The reason for the packed format you're experiencing has to do with space... it was the Arpeggiator sequence data in the P12 that had this packed format as well, and if they have 16 tracks on the Pro 2, with up to 32 steps, then they save a LOT of bytes by packing the data up like this.
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