Pro 2 Announced

Information and discussion about the DSI Pro 2.

Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:41 am

well... in this response from Pym:

Step mode that steps through one step at a time from key, ext audio, or a CV input
Slew PER STEP on every sequence track
Live recording using knob movements that automatically assign the param to a new sequence
Point to point slew (per step) so you can do precise ramps on parameter changes per step
Note slew on the main track for 303 style sequences (all oscillators)
Step recording: toggle record on and start pressing keys to enter the sequence
In step input, hold a key and turn a knob to assign that param to the step and hear the changes in realtime, makes it super easy to enter what you want quickly
Envelope trigger on/off so you can have param/CV/MIDI tracks running independently of keyboard/synth playback, or hold a note and have it affected by the param changes without retriggering
You can use every track as a MIDI track if you want to control multiple instruments
Selectable length, 16 tracks with 16 steps or 8 tracks with 32 steps
Individual track reset point for each track like the Evolver (for polyrhythmic stuff)
Note ties to extend step length for both note tracks and parameter tracks
Rests per step for both note and parameter tracks (params just revert to the default value during a rest)
Sequencer buttons track the currently selected step so you can edit/tie/rest params easily using the sequencer buttons
Individual step editing shortcut by holding the step and moving a param or hitting a key, automatically assigning it to a new sequence if needed


... it's clear that every of the 8/16 tracks (depending on the number of steps), is capable of sending MIDI note data... that answers my question... then it cannot be that only track 1 is reserved for note data.
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Strange Quark Star » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:24 am

I think that "reserved" does not imply exclusivity in things case. Seq. 1 will always contain note data, but you are free to use all other sequences for additional note data as well.
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:01 am

Strange Quark Star wrote:I think that "reserved" does not imply exclusivity in things case. Seq. 1 will <i>always</i> contain note data, but you are free to use all other sequences for additional note data as well.


Yeah, I believe that's where the misunderstanding comes from... I'm used to the Evolver line of synths, where one sequencer is the only one capable of triggering envelopes, and probably thought the same about the Pro 2 when the word "reserved" was used.

It's kind of hard to understand the way it works on the Pro 2, from loose explanations... it'll probably be a lot easier to see the whole picture once the manual is out.

But if it really works with every sequencer track being able to send MIDI note on/off, triggering envelopes etc. then the Pro 2 certainly has a powerful sequencer for sure.
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby namnibor » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:44 pm

Now I am not entirely sure how this Pro2 sequencer really works!! I think DSI should step-up their game in the marketing department with some official videos showing the supposed depth/width of the Pro2's abilities, (including sequencer) because having a cryptic 1.2 second blip in video with a Tetra sitting there and *expecting* people to pick-up on all that is possible by that brevity of reference will not work in helping people decide between the Sub 37 or if I must type it, the Elektron Analog Four/Keys...(the Analog Four/Keys having the cryptic gold standard Elektron seem proud of....I'd rather cut an organ off/out than to EVER try to circumnavigate another Elektron box in this lifetime)....DSI needs to be a bit more clear because we seem to be getting two entirely different functionality of sequencer line functions from two different DSI folk. Please help prevent anyone else from making the "Elektron Mistake (Analog Four)" I once made, by being clear and concise....please! There's also a LOT more competition out there for DSI at the moment, which is another reason to step-up the Pro2 demos. For instance, I subscribe to DSI's YouTube Channel. That's literally **FREE** advertising to their as of today, 7,535 subscribers. There is only the -1- month old demo there whereas it seems like a resource not being use to its most potential. Just saying because I will never have a Facebook Account and the law of statistics state I may be the minority but surely not alone in that decision.
The Pro2 seems like a huge game-changer of an instrument. Kind of a "Swiss Army Knife" of a studio or stage synth, and this sequencer sounds fabulous if it's indeed beyond the 16x4 we have seen up until now. I have thought about getting on the list for a Cirklon but I really would only need 1/2 it's power. The Pro 2 probably holds even more surprises and questions. Like...

My brain is having trouble understanding fact that the Pro2 has *5* envelopes with *2* for the filters, *1* VCA, and *2* freely assignable. This would suggest that would limit the amount of note data. Also, at which point(s) other than actual "paraphonic mode of 4 voices", does the sequencer also become paraphonic?

Please have full midi and sysex data documented when you release the Operation Manual for Pro2.

Okay, I am going to ak here...++++Will the Pro 2 work with the Prophet 12 MODULE as a FULL CONTROLLER...including the touch/sliders?++++ :idea:
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby dslsynth » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:00 am

Well namnibor, the way I read Carsons responses is that he is quite pressed at the moment and that shows in some of his replies above. Plus he have the advantage of being part of the Pro2 development and hence have worked with the information for months that we outsiders still have to read and understand once the manual shows up.

The Pro2 sequencer looks really nice to my eyes and I think part of the mystery in its interaction with the MIDI Outs is that - as described above - that the MIDI port and MIDI channel is encoded into the sequence modulation destinations. Once that idea is understood the rest is fairly basic.

The questions I have for the sequencer is mostly if the sequencer can do modulation only without triggering the notes and envelopes. And if wave sequencing is supported just like what the Evolvers digital oscillators can do.

And yeah, Pro2 have many good steps in the right direction. Such as the sequencer and new discrete filters complete with cross fade between the two filters. I hope they preserve some of these ideas in future more affordable designs with hybrid analog/digital oscillator sections and all the digital candy that Prophet 12 and Pro2 features. . o O ( same old VATD )
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:39 am

dslsynth wrote:Well namnibor, the way I read Carsons responses is that he is quite pressed at the moment and that shows in some of his replies above. Plus he have the advantage of being part of the Pro2 development and hence have worked with the information for months that we outsiders still have to read and understand once the manual shows up.

The Pro2 sequencer looks really nice to my eyes and I think part of the mystery in its interaction with the MIDI Outs is that - as described above - that the MIDI port and MIDI channel is encoded into the sequence modulation destinations. Once that idea is understood the rest is fairly basic.

The questions I have for the sequencer is mostly if the sequencer can do modulation only without triggering the notes and envelopes. And if wave sequencing is supported just like what the Evolvers digital oscillators can do.

And yeah, Pro2 have many good steps in the right direction. Such as the sequencer and new discrete filters complete with cross fade between the two filters. I hope they preserve some of these ideas in future more affordable designs with hybrid analog/digital oscillator sections and all the digital candy that Prophet 12 and Pro2 features. . o O ( same old VATD )


Its kind of hard to figure out how this works, and probably is until the manual is out... I for sure got confused by the way two different employees is explaining the sequencer's multitimbrality... one say you can use all 8/16 tracks as "MIDI channels", which I read as a "yes, you can have note on/offs on all 8/16 channels"... the other say that note data is "reserved" for track one.... that's my way of reading them, but I could be wrong about it, since Carson kept insinuating that I'm "not getting it", instead of giving a clear explanation...

It might be that he's "Curt" or something, but I certainly did not like the tone... do not want to argue about it, so I simply dropped doing more research on this new product until I can read myself to it in the coming manual. Besides, I'd probably never use the Pro 2's sequencer for anything else but it's own sequencer, so I really don't care if it's mono or multitimbral in it's sequencer. Only reason I chimed in is that I'm currious about the functionality, and I chime in when I see contradictions in employee statements.

But all this confusion has certainly helped me in some way... I'm certain now that I'm not going to buy a Pro 2 in a couple of days... too dangerous when I've not been able to read the manual and read other buyer's griefs with the Pro 2 for some time (they'll be there as with every other product I'm sure). I'm getting a tempest by the end of the week instead... at least I know what I'm getting there :)
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby cbmd » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:55 pm

yes I/We are working ridiculous days/hours to bring the Pro 2 to market.

The questions I have for the sequencer is mostly if the sequencer can do modulation only without triggering the notes and envelopes. And if wave sequencing is supported just like what the Evolvers digital oscillators can do.


The sequencer can be run without triggering the filter/VCA envelopes by turning the "env trig" to off.

Razmo, I am being curt due to the tone of your response to my initial message to namnibor. No offense, but you come off a bit curt yourself. It's all good, just that we are working extremely hard and I, personally, am a bit thin on patience. the info posted in my previous email is still pertinent in answering your questions.

to confirm, yes any available track (but not track 1) can be assigned to MIDI out 1/2 channels 1-16. Track 1 is currently reserved for oscillator note data. Hope this helps clear up any confusion.
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby dslsynth » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:28 pm

cbmd wrote:yes I/We are working ridiculous days/hours to bring the Pro 2 to market.

You are brewing a master piece so its all worth it. But please remember to take care of yourself and maintain your workforce while you can. Burnouts are not fun and can have prolonged unfortunate effects.

cbmd wrote:The sequencer can be run without triggering the filter/VCA envelopes by turning the "env trig" to off.

Thanks that makes sense! Knowing your voice architecture design styles its fairly easy to guess how most of the things are working. But this one was nice to have confirmed as it was not obvious how it worked and if it was supported.

Stuff I look forward to figure out is:
(1) How per step slew is implemented. Guess: most likely as on the Mopho/Tetra series with a track being able to hold slew values of another track.
(2) How the 16 or 32 step sequences are implemented. Obviously tracks are merged in pairs. But is it in parts of as two blocks?

Guess I have to wait for the manual to figure that out! ;-)

PS: The Level 42 video was really nice. Interestingly Mark King called it a Prophet 9. So I guess someone owes Mike Lindup a yellow brick compensation! ;-)
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:48 pm

cbmd wrote:yes I/We are working ridiculous days/hours to bring the Pro 2 to market.

The questions I have for the sequencer is mostly if the sequencer can do modulation only without triggering the notes and envelopes. And if wave sequencing is supported just like what the Evolvers digital oscillators can do.


The sequencer can be run without triggering the filter/VCA envelopes by turning the "env trig" to off.

Razmo, I am being curt due to the tone of your response to my initial message to namnibor. No offense, but you come off a bit curt yourself. It's all good, just that we are working extremely hard and I, personally, am a bit thin on patience. the info posted in my previous email is still pertinent in answering your questions.

to confirm, yes any available track (but not track 1) can be assigned to MIDI out 1/2 channels 1-16. Track 1 is currently reserved for oscillator note data. Hope this helps clear up any confusion.


Erm... could you please quote me for where you found me being "curt" ?

I'm sorry, but none of my two comments right after your comment to Namnibor was meant to be "curt" at all... the first one was a funny remark because of you saying "Pro 12" in your presentation video (DSI do have humor right?)... the other was a comment based on the information you gave to Namnibor, made because I could not get your answer to Namnibor's question to make any sense because it seemed contradictory.

But I think I know where the "breach" in my understanding came from now... In your initial comment to Namnibor you do not write that it's "reserved for oscillator note data" like you do in your last comment... I really had no way of knowing that what you meant was that track one was reserved for Pro 2 Note Data ...

I hope I'm right about this, otherwise I'm even more confused :lol:
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:58 pm

Better define how I understand the Pro 2 sequencer currently:

Track 1: specificaly reserved for Pro 2's own synthesis engine.

Track 2-16 (or 2-8 if 64 steps): routable to any MIDI channel on any of the two MIDI outs plus the analog CVs/Gate. Capable of sending both MIDI CC Data, Analog CV Data, MIDI Note Data and analog Gate Data. Also asume that these tracks can be used freely for modulating Pro 2 parameters as Mod. Sequencers.


If I'm wrong, then please correct me...
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby dslsynth » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:39 pm

@Razmo: Honestly I doubt its the right time to flash Danish humour for a hard pressed American. So please calm down, both of you! Okay!? ;-)

An exercise for you Razmo: Take a close look at the Prophet 12 voice architecture. You know it well already so that one should be easy for you! Imagine that the apple is not falling all too far away from the tree. Then it becomes obvious that the sequencer destinations include the MIDI and CV outputs with the MIDI port destinations having the channel number encoded as well. Then (guess) add sequence slew values for another sequence as yet another sequence modulation destination and you get the idea. The precise details we have to wait for until the manual becomes available.

Also please drink good amounts of cold water and reread all of this tread. I am sure things will be clearer when you have done so. And there will be plenty of interesting reading material once the manual becomes available.
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:04 pm

dslsynth wrote:@Razmo: Honestly I doubt its the right time to flash Danish humour for a hard pressed American. So please calm down, both of you! Okay!? ;-)

An exercise for you Razmo: Take a close look at the Prophet 12 voice architecture. You know it well already so that one should be easy for you! Imagine that the apple is not falling all too far away from the tree. Then it becomes obvious that the sequencer destinations include the MIDI and CV outputs with the MIDI port destinations having the channel number encoded as well. Then (guess) add sequence slew values for another sequence as yet another sequence modulation destination and you get the idea. The precise details we have to wait for until the manual becomes available.

Also please drink good amounts of cold water and reread all of this tread. I am sure things will be clearer when you have done so. And there will be plenty of interesting reading material once the manual becomes available.


Honestly... if DSI are hard pressed, it's because they have too few employees ;) ... I think that's very obvious from looking at their rate of fixing bugs... besides, I don't see why my humor was particularly Danish!? ... just found it funny that he said "Pro 12", and made a little fun about it... if that makes me "Curt", then Carson has too much work in my opinion :D

About the sequencer... I don't know what you're trying to say, but I've not had any problems understanding the destinations etc... my sole problem was with the "Track 1 is reserved for note data", that later showed out to be the Pro 2's "Private Track"... It really was confusing, especialy when you have to gather the info from small bits of information given by DSI's employees, and even more when they seem contradictory.

As I see this "conflict", it's a matter of misunderstanding... but the reason for the misunderstanding can be the transmitter as well as the reciever.

But yes... I'll be much wiser once the manual is out.... better make some music instead of Curt'in around in this thread... should be easy with all those Curt'is filters I have around :lol:
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby dslsynth » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:17 pm

@Razmo: My impression is that they are building on the Prophet 12 which have this stored sequence concept. That explains the sequence 1 concept fairly well. Plus that there are no discussions about what sequence track is triggering the notes. Makes programming a little easier in the OS.

And yes we can all agree that DSI have too few employees. Especially in the software department. Wonder how its going with the new web/doc employee DSI hired last year or so?
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:45 pm

dslsynth wrote:@Razmo: My impression is that they are building on the Prophet 12 which have this stored sequence concept. That explains the sequence 1 concept fairly well. Plus that there are no discussions about what sequence track is triggering the notes. Makes programming a little easier in the OS.

And yes we can all agree that DSI have too few employees. Especially in the software department. Wonder how its going with the new web/doc employee DSI hired last year or so?


But the Prophet 12 does not have sequencers at all... so I don't see how I should be able to figure this out by looking at the P12?

Anyway, I don't think there is any constructive coming out of this debate, so let's just leave it where it stands... I think I get how it works, but I'm not going to debate it any further. I'll keep my confusion to myself, and get wiser when the manual is out.
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby dslsynth » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:03 pm

Very simple: Pro2 == Evolver on steroids - analog oscillators

Its almost the same sequencer principle but with more tracks, two track length configurations and extensive MIDI/CV sequencing added.

Prophet 12 is not all that different from previous voice architectures except for the digital only oscillator/character, a separate name for each layer and (so far) no sequencer.
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby namnibor » Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:09 am

Razmo wrote:Better define how I understand the Pro 2 sequencer currently:

Track 1: specificaly reserved for Pro 2's own synthesis engine.

Track 2-16 (or 2-8 if 64 steps): routable to any MIDI channel on any of the two MIDI outs plus the analog CVs/Gate. Capable of sending both MIDI CC Data, Analog CV Data, MIDI Note Data and analog Gate Data. Also asume that these tracks can be used freely for modulating Pro 2 parameters as Mod. Sequencers.


If I'm wrong, then please correct me...


Not to add more confusion but if the above is true, then would the Pro 2 paraphonic mode *not* be able to be utilized for say a droning chord in the sequencer (not counting anything externally being sequenced via cv/midi)?

So sorry my questions have had unintended consequences of chaos. ;)

Hope the operation manual is complete and available soon. Still no sub-forum for Pro 2 in old DSI forum.
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:29 am

dslsynth wrote:Very simple: Pro2 == Evolver on steroids - analog oscillators

Its almost the same sequencer principle but with more tracks, two track length configurations and extensive MIDI/CV sequencing added.

Prophet 12 is not all that different from previous voice architectures except for the digital only oscillator/character, a separate name for each layer and (so far) no sequencer.


I Agree about the similarity to the Evolvers... but that's exactly why it's confusing because the Evolvers has Sequencer 1 reserved for triggering envelopes etc... while sequencer 2-4 can only do modulation of parameters. that's why it was so easy to misunderstand Carson's "Track 1 reserved for Note Data".

But it makes sense, that Track one is reserved for Pro 2's sound engine alone... and we now know with certainty that the other tracks can all send MIDI Note on/off to any output for sequencing other gear... so you can indeed track the four voices of a Tetra... and more.

Seems like the best sequencer DSI has done so far, and I'm looking forward to seeing this sequencer implemented on the P12 (!)
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:36 am

namnibor wrote:
Razmo wrote:Better define how I understand the Pro 2 sequencer currently:

Track 1: specificaly reserved for Pro 2's own synthesis engine.

Track 2-16 (or 2-8 if 64 steps): routable to any MIDI channel on any of the two MIDI outs plus the analog CVs/Gate. Capable of sending both MIDI CC Data, Analog CV Data, MIDI Note Data and analog Gate Data. Also asume that these tracks can be used freely for modulating Pro 2 parameters as Mod. Sequencers.


If I'm wrong, then please correct me...


Not to add more confusion but if the above is true, then would the Pro 2 paraphonic mode *not* be able to be utilized for say a droning chord in the sequencer (not counting anything externally being sequenced via cv/midi)?

So sorry my questions have had unintended consequences of chaos. ;)

Hope the operation manual is complete and available soon. Still no sub-forum for Pro 2 in old DSI forum.


You've got a poin there... to individualy trigger the four oscillators you'd have to be able to have four tracks... but we've seen videos of percussion being triggered on the Pro 2, so I have a feeling that sequencer track 1 is a special kind of track, that may have four tracks, one for each oscillator in it.... but we won't know the details until that manual is out I guess.

But no need to say sorry... Confusion tend to rise once in a while, and I have a bit too direct way of debating stuff sometimes... being "Curt" seems to be a consequence of it from time to time... still wondering who that "Curt" really is :)
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby dslsynth » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:41 am

. o O ( Uncle Curt!? :shock: )
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Re: Pro 2 Announced

Postby Razmo » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:44 am

dslsynth wrote:. o O ( Uncle Curt!? :shock: )


I think it must be uncle Curtis 8-)
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